PARTICIPANTS
Tom Dicker
Guest Host, Vice President & Portfolio Manager
Maria Benavente
Vice President & Portfolio Manager
You are tuning in to On the Money with Dynamic Funds, a podcast series that delivers access to some of the industry's most experienced active managers and thought leaders. We're sitting down to ask them the pertinent questions to find out their insights on the market environment and navigating the investment landscape.
Tom Dicker: Welcome to another edition of On the Money. I'm your guest host, Tom Dicker, vice president and portfolio manager at Dynamic Funds. Our regular host and my friend Mark Brisley asked me to sit in today. We're going to discuss one of my favorite topics, real estate. It's been a volatile year in pretty much every market, stocks, bonds, currencies, commodities. Basically, everything you can trade has been affected by both the inflation that we're seeing in the world and Central Bank's response to it, which has been, simply put, a rate shock.
Real estate has traditionally been seen as an inflation hedge meaning the price and value will go up with inflation over time, but the share prices of listed real estate companies are sharply lower this year. Which begs the question, why is that and what is the outlook for here from real estate? We're going to get into it today with my guest Vice President, Portfolio Manager Maria Benavente. Maria moved to Canada from Ecuador by herself to go to school in 2006 and graduated from the Kenneth Woods Portfolio Management Program at Concordia.
Maria started in the investment industry in 2011, then moved to Toronto. Maria joined Dynamic in 2016 working with me as an analyst, and she became a portfolio manager and more recently has become a vice president and portfolio manager. Maria is one of Canada's subject matter experts on listed real estate and is the co-manager with me on a number of funds, including the Dynamic Global Real Estate Fund. Maria, it's great to have you here.
Maria Benavente: Thanks, Tom. Great to be here.
Tom: Let's get right into it. Inflation is up and enlisted REITs are down. What do you think happened?
Maria: Like you mentioned, real estate securities are down anywhere globally if you see down on average 30% if not more. That is counterintuitive to what we would have thought real estate would have done in periods of higher inflation. In order to understand what has happened, I think you have to think about the impact of inflation in REITs in two ways. One is the impact on the cash flow and the operations of REIT. When you think about real estate being an inflation hedge, that is really an impact on the operating cash flow. Let's think about net operating incomes and the way they grow over time. We have over the long term real estate securities have delivered growth that is higher than inflation.
The reason is because you can grow rents at the pace of inflation, whether it is because that cost of construction is increasing, and therefore, on times of higher inflation, you see this self-control on supply and that leads to higher growth of market rents and that REITs, therefore, have a greater ability to pass that inflation through to their tenants. That is particularly true for REITs that have shorter-duration leases. Think about an apartment building and what has happened over the last year or two. We have seen a lot of pricing power out of these REITs where they have been able to have the ability, especially in the US where it's not a regulated market, to increase rents anywhere from 10% plus.
If you've seen what has happened this year from an operating cash flow perspective, real estate has really done well and continued to see this growth at or above inflation. From a fundamental perspective, we're really not seeing any change and we're still seeing very attractive performance from all of these REITs. On the flip side, when you have times of higher inflation, you see the central banks, like you say, raising rates, and that has been a shock to the market and repricing of assets. We have seen significant contraction of multiples year to date anywhere from 30%, and that's really what has changed the valuation of REITs in this environment.
Over the long term though, I would still expect REITs to be able to grow at inflation plus and give investors that inflation hedge. However, over the short term, you will see this impacts in the multiple and repricing obviously most real assets.
Tom: It sounds like the pace of rate increases has been faster than REIT's ability to pass on the rent growth that will take place as a result of inflation. It's more about that shocking speed at which central banks have raised rates. Is that safe to say?
Maria: Absolutely.
Tom: As a result of these big changes in valuations, are you seeing opportunities in real estate right now?
Maria: Yes. After a drawdown of 30%, we have certainly started to see areas of the market that are giving us opportunities to upgrade our portfolio. If you see what has happened across the board, really you have not seen any differentiation among whether a REIT has the best quality portfolio, the best balance sheet, excellent management teams. Everyone has just been painted with the same brush. You've seen multiples contract among many of the REITs and I think on an upcycle, we saw cap rates pretty much tighten across the board and the premium that was afforded to these platforms really was not there. When in that line it really hasn't like everyone has just been treated the same way.
I think I recently read a line from a sell-side analyst that I really thought encapsulated this very well, which is you can today in the market buy essentially cheap balance sheet insurance by buying just the highest quality large cap REITs with excellent balance sheets at very fair valuations compared to those mid-market assets. That's what we have been doing in our portfolio. We are continuing to take the volatility to upgrade to buy more of these core names that it's our focus and that we really, really like that we haven't been able to do in quite a while because of valuation. We have definitely taken this opportunity to start doing some of that.
Tom: It sounds like there's been a few cases of the baby being thrown out with the bath water. Why is that? Why do you think some high-quality companies and low-quality companies have been traded really similarly right now?
Maria: When there's an interest rate shock and when there's just this pace at which things have happened and really quickly, correlations tend to spike up to one. We saw it during COVID, where everything just went down the same without really giving much consideration to analysis of balance sheet liquidity and pricing power. I think we're seeing a little bit of the same going on right now. There's a lot of structure products or whether it is passive flows that just get the fun flow changes and you start seeing this massive sell-off of some of the securities and everything gets treated the same way. Again, like I said, with this volatility, opportunities come and that's what we're trying to capitalize on.
Tom: It makes a lot of sense when there's liquidity pulled out of the market and we're certainly seeing rapid tightening in financial conditions when you see that often opportunities do arise in the market. A lot of people like REITs for dividend growth. Do you rising rates as a headwind for dividend growth in the near term, and what sort of real estate companies can capture inflation and maybe turn that into dividend growth over the medium term?
Maria: Obviously, if you think about what has happened over the last 10 years, REITs have taken this cheap environment to just constantly refinance lower, and that has been a big tailwind for FFO. That has helped dividends. We have seen very healthy dividend growth over the last 10 years. It is hard for me to come here and say that it won't become a headwind when you're having the opposite play out. I will give credit, and this is especially true for US companies in North America to management teams to use upcycle and a business cycle to lower payouts, lower leverage, extend that term.
While I think that it will still be a headwind for the sector, perhaps it won't be as big as one would expect because you have those latter maturities, and you have lower leverage in the system. Do I think that dividend growth is still possible? Yes. Perhaps at a much modest rate, and I think that for the most part dividends are secure. Obviously, you can't say that it's true for the whole sector. You have to be very cautious to where you go. When we are looking at our portfolio, we obviously tend to try to look at those securities that have pricing power that can pass that inflation through and protect that top line from what it is a headwind on the cost side. Like you asked, what is pricing power for our REITs?
We will focus on those REITs that essentially have the highest quality portfolio in markets that are very tough to overbill because the only way you can really kill a real estate cycle is oversupply. Assets in the right markets and REITs that have platforms that are just very hard to replicate. If I think about a company that has a lot of pricing power, one of them would be Equinix. Equinix is one of the largest data center providers. Again, going back to how Equinix has differentiated themselves is if you think about a mall. Think about the largest most important mall in Canada, Yorkdale Mall, and you think why that is very attractive.
It's because you have great anchor tenants and a very strong merchandising of tenants that everyone wants to go with. That attracts a lot of traffic and that makes it the best asset in Canada for a mall. For Equinix, if you're thinking about a data center, that's essentially what they do. They have these anchor tenants that are key, which are like the network providers, the carrier. Then they have the right combination of SaaS, of enterprise tenants, cloud computing. They create this network effect within a data center that is very hard to replicate, and that allows them to have pricing power and inflationary environments and pass through the higher costs and just maintain their margins if not even expand their margins over time.
Tom: Sounds like companies have used the last cycle to reduce their dividend payout ratios. They've extended the term of debt on their balance sheets so that the immediate rise in interest rates won't hurt their cash flows too much and many good-quality companies will have the ability to capture growth in rents if they have high-quality irreplaceable portfolios over the next coming cycle. They'll be much more shielded from these rate rises than maybe it would initially appear based on how the valuations have traded over the last little while and this rapid move in interest rates. You talked a bit about data centers, which is a bit of a non-traditional area within real estate.
What are some of the other non-traditional areas of real estate that you can invest in that maybe have more of an ability to capture inflation? Things that come to mind would be self-storage as an example. What makes that business better than some other traditional areas of real estate to invest in an inflationary environment?
Maria: For self-storage, short duration of their cash flow certainly makes it a very attractive product. For storage, there's really no rent control, no lease that tells you that you cannot increase rents tomorrow or every six months, or every three months. REITs can certainly adapt or adjust their business model on their rent growth model to really pass that inflation through in a quick manner. That has really boosted the earnings profile of that sector. On top of that, the sector is one that operates with limited cost, so you're having higher rent on a very high-margin business that it's driving significant operating leverage.
Those alternative classes for the best majority of those really have higher margins than many of the traditional asset classes and they also have lower CapEx, which is what I think attracts many investors over the last 10 years to this type of platforms and business models. If you think about cell towers, it's a similar operating model where you have secure cash flows plus growth from a continued growth of data infrastructure and mobile consumptions, very limited costs, so high-margin business with limited CapEx.
The economics are a lot more attractive than what you would think about an office building that is much more sensitive to the cycle, that is much more tied to GDP growth, to job growth, and operates at a lower margin, and has a lot more capital-intensive requirements to just continuously improve the assets.
Tom: On the topic of office, I think everyone who works in an office has at some point worked from home and they've thought, "Geez, people sure aren't using offices very much lately." That's got to be bad for commercial real estate. That's got to be bad for REITs. Where do you stand on office real estate? Are you bullish, are you bearish? Because the stocks are down a lot. Where do you stand on that?
Maria: Coming out of the pandemic, we were bearish on the asset class. I think, for the most part, we are still, if we just look at the market broadly. Work from home continues to be something that hasn't really changed. People had these expectations that work from home was going to stop being a thing post-pandemic and that people would rush back into the office. That hasn't really happened. For the most part, companies have been trying to get people back into the office, tried to put restrictions around work from home, but it just really hasn't worked. People want to at least get two or three days. That has to have an impact on utilization rates.
We haven't seen utilization rates of an office building come up yet. We have seen very little improvements, so that is a challenge that will make a lot of office properties, especially the old ones, obsolete. That is something that you have to consider when you invest in office, and you will have to do a lot more work and analysis to make sure that you don't own this BC product and only own the highest quality inventory that will be-- If a company decides to keep an office space, that's really where they're going to-- like this flight to safety that we keep hearing, and that's what they're going to choose to keep.
Tom: Why does a tenant want to occupy a new office versus maybe a cheaper old one? What objectives are they reaching by occupying brand-new office space?
Maria: I think what they try to do when they go and choose those assets, it's first, obviously the location matters, try to attract as much talent as they can in one location. The second and more important component that we hear more and more often is ESG. They want an office that has better air quality, that is more environmentally friendly, that has newer amenities that can attract talent. They will use this office building as a way to recruit talent. They want to have a checklist where everything that a future employee would want, that's how they're going to market themselves.
I think that's where you're going to continue to see more and more companies just take that the downturn that we've seen in office to lease more of this Class A space. If you go and see what has happened in terms of demand, 80% of the demand activity in office, it's really in that Class A space.
Tom: It sounds like having brand new office space in your portfolio is really the only way you're going to be able to continue to attract tenants, especially in an environment where we know there has been some new supply bill pretty much in every major market that was started before COVID and has now been completed, so there's empty space in some of these markets. You talked about ESG. That's certainly something that we spend some time on. We subscribe to some ESG research. I think we probably have a bit of a mixed view of how that works. What's your view on ESG? How do you think about it? What do you think the limitations of ESG research are?
Maria: Broadly speaking, that is something that we obviously have looked at and will always look when it comes to our investment process. The G part, which is the governance part, has always been a part of our process. You can't really invest in a company without looking at governance and making sure that the management team and the board will do right by you. That is not a new part of our investment process when it comes to the ENS. Certainly, we're trying more and more to incorporate it into our investment process, but it's hard when there's no standardization between companies on how they disclose these metrics.
There's not really set terms and it's very hard to analyze when they're talking about very, very long targets to just put them on a scale and ranking among the different securities. It's something that we're trying to incorporate and trying to analyze how it will impact the operating environment of a REIT. It's if you're not going to net zero and if there's regulations that will make it harder for you to operate your building and you will have to put more capital into an office building, for example, to continue to operate it, or from a social standpoint, is the government going to intervene in your operations and put more regulatory risks?
These are factors that we certainly have to consider for when we invest, but like anything, I will tell you, you have to do your own due diligence. You can rely on these rating agencies; we use them internally. Sometimes we will have different opinions and you have to be very cautious to just blankly taking a rating and assuming that that's true. The best example that I can give is that we had a North American residential REIT, where they had rated it as having an above-average corporate governance. If you really truly look and how we would personally rank that company, we would rank it at the bottom quartile of corporate governance because the chairman and CEO had the same role.
He's the chairman and CEO of other four companies. It's an externally managed REIT, which we have had instances where that REIT has lent to the parent company and have accredited and operating line. Obviously, they have acquisition fees that again, presents conflicts in the way they acquire and make decisions for the REITs. Again, this is a company that we would rate it at the bottom and has perpetually traded at that discount to net asset value given their corporate governance issues. Yet, if you go and read one of this rating agency's report, they're ranking it above average. I think you really truly have to be careful with how you use those rating agencies.
Tom: The disclosure on public REITs with respect to ESG has certainly gotten better. We see more and more companies publishing an ESG report every year. Clearly, there's a wide range of what gets disclosed and what's important even between different companies, let alone in between different property types. I think they're generally trying to move in the right direction as investors are asking them to do so. One of the big advantages of investing in public real estate is this ability to get all of this disclosure that is vetted by auditors and filed with the Ontario Securities Commission in Canada and the SCC in the US and other regulators broadly. That's one advantage of investing in listed real estate.
For most folks, investing in listed real estate is one of the only ways they can invest in real estate. Most folks don't have the ability to go out and buy a $100 million commercial building. What are some of the other reasons why someone would want to invest in listed real estate generally as part of a portfolio, let alone the specific opportunity that we have, and we've gone over right now? What are the reasons why someone would want to invest in listed real estate ever?
Maria: I think one of the main advantages that you have by investing in listed real estate securities is first that it affords you an ability to diversify and really own the best-in-class companies in each of the property types. This is something that you couldn't do, for example, in a pension fund or you couldn't do if you just go and buy a private real estate vehicle. This is especially true in the US. The public listed REITs truly own the best real estate there is in the US. If you think about Prologis, if you think about Equity Residential, those are companies that are best-in-class platforms that are very hard to replicate today that control the highest quality real estate in the US.
Another thing that I think really gets underappreciated during good times, but we will see it in bad times, is the liquidity of it. If you have a call to where you want to increase your real estate exposure, decrease it, or change your views, that's something that you can quickly do. You don't have to sell it at a big discount. You can just quickly do it. What you see in the private markets, for example, and we've seen this happen multiple times, whether it is during Brexit or during financial troubles and even as recent as two weeks ago, you really don't have that ability to just make an asset allocation call and redeem all of your position in a matter of days.
Typically, because real estate is an illiquid security, when these funds get a lot of redemptions at the same time, they have to gate their redemptions, which is essentially capture redemptions and close the fund for redemptions. You're trapped in the short term. You can really liquidate quickly because there's that mismatch in liquidity. Then another reason I would give is again when you look at the pensions’ portfolios in the real estate side, they would still be over index retail and office, and they wouldn't have a lot of this specialty type of asset classes that we own and are a big and important part of our portfolio. You really can create a much more diversified income stream that you could otherwise in the private market.
Tom: If I was going to summarize that, I'd say you can get access to more of the different property types within real estate, whether it's cell phone towers, manufactured housing, all of those areas that are more illiquid. You also get great management teams as a result of being able to get the best companies, whether it's US or globally, so you can get really high-quality management teams that can allocate capital on your behalf.
Obviously, in real estate, having that chief executive officer that's also in some cases the chief investment officer, that's a really important role. That's the CIO role, that's your capital allocator, the person that can create a lot of value or destroy a lot of value depending on whether or not they get it right. In terms of how you think about getting it right in real estate, what are some of the key criteria you look for when you're investing in a publicly traded real estate company? What are the things where you look at and you think, "This makes it a good property type or a good company within a sector." Versus, "This is not an area we'd like to invest."
Maria: Just on a macro level, I think what really truly matters in real estate and will dictate the direction of your property type and performance is market rent growth. You really have to get your market rent growth right in order to make money in real estate. There's a couple of things that you have to look at to know where that is heading or just have an ability to predict where that is heading.
First of all, what is the economy doing? Job growth is very important. Job growth is highly correlated to the demand profile as well as it is GDP. Some property types are more sensitive to GDP growths than the others or a higher correlation than the others. For example, if you truly believe that we're heading into a recession, well you wouldn't want to own office because that is a highly cyclical asset that is dependent on the business cycle, that's dependent on job growth. You'll have to look at what is happening with the economy and that will dictate demand and market rent growth.
Another factor that you really have to look into is what's happening with supply. Real estate business cycles usually end because oversupply. If you're in a market where it's very easy to get approvals and very easy to build because there's a lot of land availability, while your business cycle tends to be shorter and you tend to experience more boom-bust type of performance in your asset class, so there might be a time to own it, but you have to be very careful with where your capital is allocated if you're going to allocate capital to those markets.
Another thing that we tend to look at is obviously, our management teams and what have they done. Like you mentioned a couple of minutes ago, you have to make sure that the management teams that you're choosing are good stewards of capital that have truly made the right decisions, buying portfolios, allocating capital, and just don things that are value-add and value creative as opposed to value destructive. Outside of that, we will look at the balance sheet and I think for real estate, this is a [unintelligible 00:25:31] asset class and you have to be very careful with how the balance sheet has been used and what has management done.
Have they taken unduly risk? Are they buying a large portfolio at the wrong time in that cycle? Have they taken leverage up to buy a big portfolio that perhaps they didn't need to do? All of those decisions again and that goes back to management and their acumen and their stewardship of capital. It also goes to balance sheet and a cycle can turn very quickly like we've seen recently and not in North America, this is more of a European problem, I think, have been caught off guard. There was a lot of groupthink that asset values couldn't go down.
They took leverage up materially and there are some asset classes like a residential REIT, for example, in Germany where it's no problem from a cash flow perspective. From an operating cash flow perspective, we're still seeing good occupancy, we're seeing good market rent growth, but the balance sheets are just not there. The market and the cycle has turned very quickly on them, and they just haven't been able to adjust. At this point, they're all being net sellers of assets in a very challenging time.
Tom: Do you think something like what happened with German residential, which is down 60%, 70%, 80% in some cases, the publicly traded German residential stocks, do you think something like that could happen in Canada or the US?
Maria: In Canada, it would be more difficult. First of all, management teams have not taken balance sheet. In the German residential market, where we're talking about debt to EBITDA, that's up 16 times, that's very high. I think on average in the Canadian space will be like 9, 10 times. It is a very different profile, but I think, more importantly, we have this wonderful thing called CMHC financing that limits the refinancing risks. I think most of these REITs will be able to continue to refinance. They have liquidity, they have support from the banks. I just don't think that we're going to get there. For the past couple of years, we really haven't seen them being as active on the acquisition markets.
They have really been prudent. When they were being computed out by private market funds, they didn't do deals that didn't make sense. I will commend a lot of them for just using our capital wisely and stopping acquisitions when they had to stop it and just waiting for the right opportunity.
Tom: That's despite pretty good fundamentals in Canada. Are you bullish on Canadian real estate right now in the residential sector? Specifically, I'm talking about multifamily.
Maria: Apartment REITs in Canada this year are down anywhere from 30% to I think the more liquid on smaller caps 40%. We've seen the material drawdown in the asset class. Obviously, a lot of it is, again, like we talked about this rate shock, but some of it is also the uncertain regulatory environments. The sector really had a few headwinds ahead of them where the federal government have obviously talked about this review of the housing market.
It is unclear yet what that will end up being, but for what we've heard, they won't probably take out the REIT structure, which I think was the biggest market fear.
Tom: What does that mean, take out the REIT structure?
Maria: At some point, they had talked about eliminating the ability for REITs to operate in a REIT structure and taxing REITs. I think that there was a misconception of a couple of things. I think a private player can shield taxes just as much as REITs. If you were to remove the REIT structure, most of these REITs would just privatize and continue to operate in a tax-free environment. I think a lot of the apartment REITs today are taking this role of educating government on first the REIT structure and how much of the market they control and their operations.
If you're hearing in the press, that there's a lot of renovations where a lot of our REITs that we would own in the public markets. That's not what they do. That's not how they operate. They play by the rules, they invest capital in their assets to improve the quality of living for their tenants. That's not where the problem is. I think that education is probably going to go a long way. I think that the risks today of that regulatory change is much less and at 30% drawdowns, you'll certainly have risk rewards that are probably more skewed towards the upside in terms of why we like the sector.
What we think will continue to drive very healthy top-line growth is first you still have a big population growth coming from continued immigration, the government increased their immigration targets last year and we will continue to see more immigrants coming into Canada. Being an immigrant myself, if I think about what's happening everywhere else in the world, listen, Canada's a great place to be. You have water security, energy security, you have security in general and safety, just feeling safe to hear, it is enough for you to want to leave whatever conditions is in a developing world to come here to safety.
I think that will continue to attract a lot of immigrants and will continue to have this big population growth at a time where supply is just not there to meet up that growth. That will still continue to benefit this apartment landlords.
Tom: Why is supply so constrained in a market like Toronto where we know people are moving here, we know there's a lot of demand, prices are high? Why can't we just build some new supply in a city like Toronto?
Maria: One of the biggest reasons is just first we don't have construction capacity. I think there's a labor challenge. It's very hard to bring new supply, but more importantly, it's very hard to bring supply at the price point that the market needs. Most of the condo supply that you see because I think it's one of the questions that we get asked frequently is, "Well, you're seeing all of these cranes," most of that supply is coming in at the higher point because that's the only way developers can justify construction or make it work.
Outside of subsidies or the government giving them grants, you can only really price that at $5, $4 per square feet rents, which is very high, and you would need a high income to afford those type of rents. Until you don't see the government perhaps helping out in terms of different types of products to bring more and more affordable housing, I just think you're going to have this chronic and or supply of the type of product that we need.
Tom: When you think about residential housing, we always get asked what our outlook is there and of course, we don't invest in residential housing in Canada. There are no listed vehicles to do so because it's obviously very important for the Canadian economy and to a certain extent it's the other side of the coin in that and we think that affordability's tough in residential housing and that pushes more people into renting apartments for longer. What is your outlook for residential real estate in Canada, especially in light of this big move we've had in interest rates recently?
Maria: We have already started to see the housing market soften, which, to be honest, it almost seemed impossible. There was this psychology in the housing market that housing prices could never go down. Which led to a lot of speculation in the market, a lot of just exuberance in the market. I think that is starting to unwind. You can't have mortgage rates double and not that being significant for the market after seeing the price appreciation that you saw in homes over the last couple of years. That has really led to having an extreme affordability issue. If you go and look how much of a disposable income goes to service mortgages, it is really a problem for the government today.
Going forward, they're probably still more pain to be had. We have seen already transaction activity materially reduce. I think I read for September it was about 30% below transaction activities down about 30% from the COVID peak. I think pricing while it has adjusted, it probably hasn't adjusted enough yet. You typically do see a lag from when transaction activities starts to slow down to when pricing adjusts. We're down, I think it's about 6% year over year. I think there's probably more to come. That psychology again, of housing that I talked, it works both ways. It works on the upwards and it works on the downside.
I would say that people now probably don't think that housing prices will go forever. They will stay out of the market and that will feed off. Another point that I would probably make is that I would be more concerned a little bit on that preconstruction. I think we're starting to hear that developers are having a harder time bringing people to see their units in preconstruction and they're carrying that land. I think that's where a lot of investors have gone, and I think that's where you could potentially see a little bit more distress.
Tom: That certainly speaks to at least a more medium-term bullish picture for apartments because people still do need a place to live. It's going to get people renting maybe for longer. We've got some areas that we're bullish on, some areas that we're bearish on. Broadly with respect to REITs and real estate globally, are you optimistic, pessimistic? Where do you stand right now, and what advice would you give to someone who's maybe on the sidelines and thinking about either allocating a little bit more or making their first foray into investing in real estate?
Maria: I would say I'm cautiously optimistic. We have seen a repricing of the sector year to date after a very strong year last year. Like I mentioned earlier in the podcast, you're starting to see opportunities. In volatile markets, that's really where we can flex our knowledge and our expertise and really find the right opportunities to upgrade our portfolio and just really buy these high-quality real estate businesses at a higher margin of safety.
I think there's certainly opportunities today, but I would caution that you have to do a lot of due diligence on balance sheets and on market rent growth because after years and years of very easy money, you have to expect that heading into a recession, you still have challenges ahead. You really have to be careful with what real estate companies you buy and why you buy them. Know what you're buying and know why you're buying it.
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Tom: That's great advice. Thank you very much for that, Maria.
Maria: Thanks, Tom.
Tom: On that note, I want to thank all of our listeners. For more information on Dynamic and our complete fund lineup, contact your financial advisor or visit our website at dynamic.ca. On behalf of all of us at Dynamic Funds, we wish you all continued good health and safety. Thank you for joining us.
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You've been listening to another edition of On the Money with Dynamic Funds. For more information on Dynamic in our complete fund lineup, contact your financial advisor or visit our website at dynamic.ca.
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