PARTICIPANTS
Mark Brisley
Managing Director and Head of Dynamic Funds
Jason Gibbs
Vice President and Senior Portfolio Manager
PRESENTATION
Mark Brisley: You are tuning in to On the Money with Dynamic Funds, a podcast series that delivers access to some of the industry's most experienced active managers and thought leaders. We're sitting down to ask them the pertinent questions to find out their insights on the market environment and navigating the investment landscape. Welcome to another edition of On the Money. I'm your host, Mark Brisley. Now, even though our title for today, Emotional Investing Rescue, may have had you thinking of the chart-topping 1980 release by the Rolling Stones, my guest is not here to be our savior, steadfast, and true, but he is well suited to share some perspectives on the emotional aspects of investing and being an investor in emotional times.
Jason Gibbs, Portfolio Manager here at Dynamic Funds, joined our firm in 2000 and is a founding member of our Equity Income Team, where he's built a successful track record managing or co-managing North American and infrastructure equity mandates that total over $18 billion in assets under management across various platforms. In addition to being a portfolio manager, by trade, Jason is a chartered accountant as well as a chartered financial analyst charter holder. Most importantly, Jason is a passionate advocate for investor education and the less-discussed non-tangible elements of investing, which will be our focus today.
Jason, it's great to have you here. Thank you for indulging my trip to squeeze in some classic rock lyrics.
Jason Gibbs: That's great. Thanks for having me.
Mark Brisley: Let's jump right in. The emotional side of investing does not often get a lot of attention in the media and other platforms. Why is this such an important topic for investors? Obviously, the times we find ourselves in, that may seem like an obvious question, but in all times, it is underdiscussed.
Jason Gibbs: TIt's one of the subjects that does not get enough airplay. When you read the daily news, they rarely talk about the emotions of investing, but I'm convinced that it's a difference between success and failure. Mark, when I think back at some of the best investors in history, you'll find that they tend to be relatively stoic. They don't get too high on the highs of the market. They don't get too low on the lows of the market. They have a process, a discipline, and they tend to stick to them. Now, on the worst investors in history, who we won't name, but some, I'm sure we'll know them, they were not emotionally centered, let's say.
They may have had all the degrees and whatnot, but they probably got too excited on the highs and maybe used leverage, margin, and margin debt let's say. On the lows of the market, they tended to sell, which can be the worst thing you can do. I always think about that, and I always go back to Warren Buffett. One of his famous sayings is, "Investing is simple, but it's not easy." When you boil it down, what we're trying to do, clients have savings, and you want to invest for a longer-term goal, whether that's retirement, maybe it's education, maybe it's a house, maybe it's financial independence.
That's what we're all trying to do, that's the goal. When Buffett said investing is simple, I think what he meant is, when you look at history, when you look at data about the past, what has worked, it's pretty simple. You boil it down to, you want to diversify, have a relatively diversified earning stream. You want to start early. You want to invest in great businesses that have earnings, that have cash flows. Most important, I think is, let the compounding be. It's one of the miracles of investing.
It's one of the miracles of finance. What that very simply means is if you have a great business today that has, let's say $1 in earnings as an example, if that compounds over time, before you know it, in 5 years, 7 years, 10 years, 15 years, that dollar could be $3, $4, or $5. Now, you have a lot more value. Now, we get to the part about why is investing not easy? As Buffett says, often, investors interrupt the compounding often. That's when you get into trouble, when you sell these great businesses, as an example, and start interrupting the compounding.
Let's get into emotions, the part of investing that's not easy. I always step back and say, "Look, we should be easy on ourselves. We are humans. None of us is like Spock in Star Trek, where you have no emotions, and you're 100% rational." Let's start off and be easy on ourselves. To be human is to have emotions. That means, sometimes we're happy. Sometimes, you wake up not as happy, maybe a little bit sad. Sometimes somewhat depressed or anxious. There are other times when we are in a state of euphoria, where we think nothing can ever go wrong. That really is what it means to be human.
When I think about investing and emotions, there's a few things to keep in mind. One, humans tend to be prone to anxiety. When I think about that, at least, you got to remember that humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years. For us to survive, we always had to be on the lookout for threats. If you think about the modern world that we've been in for maybe 100 or 200 years, that's really a speck of time on how long humans have been around. Therefore, the modern world can sometimes lead us to be anxious and to always be looking out for what could go wrong.
In investing, we call that loss aversion, and how that can harm you is when it comes to your emotions. That means that losses tend to hurt a lot more in our brains than gains. We're just always on the lookout for losses, and we have trouble tolerating losses even though, in the grand scheme of things, you're going to have to tolerate some losses to be a successful investor. If you can't, you're just constantly going to be selling and interrupting the compounding. Next, when I think about emotions and when it comes to investing, humans are fairly tribal.
We're social beings. Again, that's how we've survived all of this time, we had to cooperate. We had to cooperate within groups. That means we're social. Even for introverts, the past couple of years with COVID has certainly proven to many, I think, that when we lose that social, that's not good, and that causes a lot of damage. We are social, and we want to cooperate. Now, the problem is when you think about that when it comes to investing and how that can harm you sometimes, it does sometimes lead to herd behavior.
You see others, let's say, who are making a lot of money on a speculative stock or something that you don't understand, then that kind of herd behavior can take over, and some will just start paying whatever price possible to buy something because others are doing that. That's kind of the FOMO (fear of missing out). That's when you're just going to pay way, way too much. On the other hand, the problem can be when others are selling in a panic, and you see that and it's like, I'm going to be part of that group, and now I'm going to sell."
That's often the worst thing to do. Finally, we can probably finish it off by talking about another issue, which is, the human brain craves certainty. It craves order. We do not have a lot of, I don't know if patience is the right word, but a lot of patience for understanding the fact that the world is not a straight line. It is very random. It is very uncertain. That's why our brains are always searching for order. We want things to make sense, and we don't like uncertainty.
The problem is when you look at the markets and you think about how that can cause damage, some will look at what happened to stocks let's say this week, or last week, or last month, and they think that because of what happened last week or last month, they know what's going to happen next week and next month. They tend to extrapolate the past into the future. You can't do that because the world is so, so random. You just have to accept that it's not a straight line. You can't use mathematical equations to figure out where markets are going to be tomorrow or next week.
When you add them all up, and we'll get into it on this podcast, emotions can make or break your success. Simple as that. You can know as much about the markets as you want, and you may have read all the books, but if you can't handle your emotions, you're just not going to be successful.
Mark Brisley: You talked about compounding and understanding things. I think you and I both agree, one of the areas, in particular of importance to us both, and that we think we can be doing a better job at, is introducing kids, teenagers, school-aged people to these concepts earlier, and the education system doing a better job of making them aware of everything you've talked about, but also the basic elements of investing and managing finances.
Jason Gibbs: TI 100% agree because it can make such a huge difference in a person's life. I think what we're all trying to get at, at least when it comes to our finances, and generally in life, is more freedom. One of the ways you can get that is to get yourself to a point of financial independence in the future, where, you know what? If a job isn't working for you, then you don't need it. You can go find another job, or you can work on your own. That's a huge degree of financial independence. To your point, it doesn't have to be complicated when we're talking to children about finances.
You just keep it simple and you hope they remember some of the basics, which is, start early, let the compounding be, diversify, and just don't watch it every year. Have a good plan in place, and you'll be in great shape as you get into your adult years.
Mark Brisley: Jason, you're a professional investor, so, you've seen a lot over a 20 plus year career. Traps that other professional investors fall into, trying to keep yourself out of those traps, but what are some of the elements of that that you see investors, in general, falling into, and why does it seem to be that cycle of making the same mistakes?
Jason Gibbs: TAs we go through the past, and as I look at my past in the markets, you see the same things repeating time and time again, but you know what? As Charlie Munger says, that's the beauty of books. Try not to make the mistakes that others have made. You just learn a lot from books. That's why someone like Charlie Munger just reads books all day. When I look at some of the common, common traps that people can fall into, and I certainly do not pretend to be perfect at this, you always have to watch yourself, I start with market timing.
Every year that I've been an investor, there's always some who think they can time the market. One of the problems is if you watch the news, or the business news, or newspapers, or the internet, there's always someone who's selling something who will say, with a great degree of confidence, that they know what the market is going to do next week, tomorrow, or this year. There are not too many things I'm 100% certain of, but I am pretty close to being 100% certain that market timing is impossible. I've never seen anyone do it correctly. Never.
If you could, then people would sell the book and tell you, "Here is how to do it," and we wouldn't need anything in terms of financial advice. It's impossible to do, but it's a common, common trap that people can fall into. They'll read something or see something, and they'll say, "I'm out. I'm getting out of the market because something bad is going to happen," or they'll put everything into the market at the wrong time because they think something is going to happen. I would always caution those who get seduced by market timing, that the economy, and earnings, and stocks, the world of stocks is way too complicated to try and time.
When you're trying to time, what you're really saying is that you know what the value of over 10,000 stocks will be tomorrow, next week, or next year, and it's impossible. The economy is just simply far too, too complicated. Never get into that trap is number one. Next thing I would mention in terms of a trap, Mark, is the cycle of emotions and not understanding that. Maybe I'll step back a little bit, and basically, you start out in despondency, where nothing will ever get better. Then it gets a little bit more optimistic as an emotion.
Then you're getting a little bit happy, and then it gets to a state of euphoria, where the thought is, "It's never going to be bad, and prices will never go down. Therefore, I'll just get in at any price because who really cares because the stock will never go down." Then you go through that cycle. One of the traps is not understanding that, because one of the biggest mistakes you can make as an investor is buying in a state of euphoria. Mark, not that I can do this anymore, but it's like showing up at a party at 2:00 AM or 3:00 AM at night and recognizing you're the last person there when you're buying in a state of euphoria.
Everyone else showed up in the afternoon. At a certain point, there's no buyers left. If you get yourself caught in that very quickly, you can be down 80% to 90% from the highs if you look at some of the great periods of euphoria. A few of them, Mark, are-- think about the late 1990s, the tech bubble of the 1990s, which I lived through. I remember where I was working at the time, some of the portfolio managers, the discussion was, "This makes absolutely no sense," but it just kept going, some of these tech companies that had just been around for a few days that were IPO-ing.
Then we all know how that ended. Very poorly. The nifty fifty situation in the 1970s. That was a period where there were several stocks with great brand names that were driven up in price. Everyone owned them, and that did not end well. The marijuana stocks in 2016, 2017, that was a huge thing in the Canadian market. I remember, you probably remember, Mark, where I was doing presentations during that time period. Speaking of schools, I remember doing presentations to some schools and I could see the eyes glaze over.
The only questions I got at the end were, "Yes, but do you own pot stocks?" Everyone seemed to get involved in that. You had to step back and say, "Wait a second, these are just flowers being grown somewhere. There's no brands." That has not ended well, and those stocks are down a lot. Probably the most famous period of euphoria was the tulip bubble, 1634 to 1637, in the Netherlands, that people still talk about to this day. On the other hand, with the cycle of emotions, panics. Those are when you got to be really careful not to get caught up in a panic.
That's hard to do. The worst mistake, and this can destroy an entire investment career, an entire investment portfolio is to sell in a panic because, at that point in time, most investors don't think it will ever get better. That would have been the depression of the 30s. Even the late 70s, there are some famous magazine covers, The Death of Equities, Equities are Gone Forever, 2008, The Great Financial Crisis. I do keep a lot of newspapers in the basement from that time, and I remember some of the headlines. US Banks are All Going Under, Get Out Now.
Then we had March 2020 with COVID clearly, where markets were down significantly. Never sell during those panics. Actually, if you want to do well, of course, often it's better to go the other way, in terms of putting money to work. Then I'll finish it off, in terms of the traps, talk about two more. One, recessions. I often find a trap people get caught up in is expecting recessions all the time. I've never seen anyone correctly predict when a recession is going to happen.
They are relatively rare in history. They do happen. I'm sure one will happen in our future but be careful with those that seem to constantly predict that they're coming down the road. Remember where we started, that's loss aversion and the human kind of anxiousness of always expecting something to go wrong. Again, economies are just too complicated to be able to think that you can predict global recessions. Finally, Mark, politics. This is a touchy one, but my goodness, politics, I've seen big mistakes made where some investors have political opinions, which are totally fine, totally fair, but never, never, if you don't like a prime minister, or a president, or a party, mix that up with your investing strategy.
I've seen huge mistakes made there. If someone doesn't like political leaders, and they think that leader will do something that will hurt a country, and then they sell stocks, it makes no sense. If you think about why we own stocks and businesses, regardless of the politician of the day, I'm pretty sure people will keep buying iPhones, will keep using Apple. I'm pretty sure people will keep paying their internet bills, their cable bills. They'll keep paying rent. Always try and divorce yourself from the politics of the day when it comes to investing.
Mark Brisley: Jason, I was talking to a colleague not long ago. We were talking about what's really changed investing over time, what's been a seismic change in how people invest. We agreed it had nothing to do with investing. It was media and access to information. We're bombarded with it. The last two years have just exacerbated that point. With that as an influence, how do you handle your emotions when investing and the information flow that's just coming at us constantly?
Jason Gibbs: TI think it's one of the biggest issues of our day is how to handle the attention economy. There's a number of books that have been written about this certainly recently. We are in an age of enormous data, which clearly has helped technology companies, but there's just so much data and information out there. What companies are trying to do is grab your attention, grab my attention, grab everyone's attention.
Then, of course, they sell that for ads, or otherwise, they wouldn't be in business. You have to try, as much as you can, to get away from that. I don't think in this era, we'll ever be 100% sure of getting away from that. It's impossible, but what I try to do is, one, when it comes to the news, particularly the business news, whether on television, or whether on the internet or what have you, be really careful. Frankly, what I do is turn it off most of the time.
There are times where maybe it's a good interview that's on. I'll watch that, and that helps, but as I sit here today, everything is off. That's what I try to do, just keep it off. If you have that on all the time, if the business news or the stock quotes, you're going to get caught up in wanting to do something. You're going to want to trade, you're going to feel the need to trade because remember, these business news channels, it's not a charity. They want your attention because they want high ratings. It's a pretty simple model that we're all aware of.
They don't get high ratings by saying, "It's a Friday, and there's not much going on today. Does anyone want to talk about anything?" They get your attention by scaring you. They'll zone in on the worst story of the day, and they'll make it like that's the only news out there, or if there's a part of the market that's doing very well, go back to that herding instinct that humans have. They'll say, "Everyone should be in, I'm buying, and just, the sky is the limit." They're going to play on that, so you got to be really, really, careful of that and take it with a grain of salt.
Always remember, the news of the day today, we're usually going to forget a year from now or two years from now. It tends to go away. I'm just going to pick a date. Do you remember what you were doing, I don't know, February 5th of 2013? I guess unless that was your birthday. I can't remember. I don't know, but I'm sure there was probably a major news story that day. I truly don't know. Just remember that. The news that seems so important every day, often, is forgotten. I think about the jobs report that's released once a month in the United States.
They make that out to be, the biggest news story you'd ever want to be involved in. Then I always think, "But do you remember what that report was seven months ago? I don't." Who knows, right? It's just, it doesn't really mean that much, other than the trends. Now, the other thing that I try to do, watch out for the screens. You don't have to look at stock prices every day. In fact, that's one of the worst things you can do. Remember that a daily stock price, it's just an auction of human emotions. You're just seeing an auction. Think about auctions where people are actually there, and it's not electronic.
People are screaming and shouting. That's really all it is every day. It can be very, very, random, so, step away from that. Don't try and watch that every day because, again, it may lead to some bad behavior. Think about owning a house. You don't call your broker if you own a house, and say, "What's my house worth today?" Then you wake up tomorrow morning and call your broker, and say, "Hey, what's my house worth today? Has it gone up or down?" You don't do that, right? Isn't it funny that we look today, and probably some of the best assets, those who are fortunate to own real estate have, are their homes or other properties.
They probably didn't do much, they probably kept living in it. Keep thinking about that. Also, I always personally think myself, and I sometimes can get caught up in this, I step aside and say, "Look, you can only control the controllables." That is so, so important in life and investing. I think one of the most frustrating parts of being an investor and following the markets that a lot of people get caught up on is that they can do so much work. They can do all the spreadsheets, they have all the degrees, and they've been up all night doing work on what businesses should be worth, or this or that.
Then the market goes against them every day. You have to step inside it and say, "Look, it's short-term." You cannot control the markets. It's completely outside of your control. Step back and say, "I can't control the daily markets, but what can I control? I can control my own emotions. I can control what I think the business is worth, and if the market is giving me an opportunity to buy that business at a really good price, or to sell the business at a really good price. I can control my plan. It's my plan." Everyone has a different financial plan.
That's what we can control. You cannot control the prices. It causes people a lot of nervousness and anxiety, but you have to just accept it. It's a bit of a different profession. It's different than if you're going to the gym every day, five days a week, seven days a week, and you have a goal in mind, and you're working out one hour, two hours a day. I'm pretty certain that in six months or a year, you're going to be feeling great. You've probably reached your goals if you stuck to it. That's what people want to see, but as opposed to the markets, it can be quite frustrating because markets will do what they do. Then finally, Mark, you know what?
This is just me. Everyone is different. I'll try and turn that phone off at 7:00, 7:30 at night. Not always successful, but I try to turn it off at 7:00, 7:30 at night. That gives you a lot of freedom. You have to get a good sleep; you have to be ready for the next day. That's one of the most important things we can do. If you've got your phone on, and you're about to go to sleep, and you see a headline that says Future's Markets are Down by 500 Points, guess what? You're not having a good sleep probably, and there's nothing you can do about it. Finally, it's good to get out, go for a walk, nature.
Take the headphones out and just let your brain breathe a little bit.
Mark Brisley: That's great advice for beyond investing too. We had a podcast not long ago, with Dr. Brynn Winegard who's a neuroscientist, and she echoed just about all of those same sentiments. Jason, if someone feels, "All right, I've gotten a hold and in touch with the emotional side. I understand why I think, and why I act the way I do when it comes to finances and investing," how can I use this knowledge then, and my own self-awareness to my advantage?
Jason Gibbs: TYes, this is probably the most important question. I think, one, you do step back and say, "No one is ever going to be perfect. I will never be perfect, we are human." You step back and just hope that you understand this, but if you have done the work and have understood the traps that people can fall into, you're much further ahead than many, when it comes to markets. That's a good thing. I always start there. Start there and end there. What I tend to do when I'm in the office, as an example, I'm going up and down the elevator, or I'm walking in the underground, you'd be amazed, you start hearing conversations.
You're waiting for a coffee, you're waiting to get lunch, and you can tell when the market is starting to get a little down, and people are talking about recessions, and "Geez, the market is down 5% from the highs. I think it's going to be down worse. I'm getting worried." You start looking at headlines, that the headlines are all getting negative, that's a clue. Then you flip it around. If people are just, you can't take the smiles off their faces, everything is great. I'm taking on debt to invest in the markets, and the headlines are all about how stocks can never go down, or what have you, then that's a clue.
I'm always on the lookout for that, but really, what's most important, Mark, is, how you can use this to your advantage is, as much as you can, be on the other side of some of these things. If you are a saver and an investor, I've always found the strangest thing. Prices going down causes people trouble. You've probably heard this many times, but it's probably the only asset in someone's life where the price going down causes them consternation. We're going through a big inflation scare now, as everyone knows.
We'd love for prices to go down in goods and services today, but when stocks go down or other assets, people get very nervous, so, invert your thinking. Just remember, if you're a saver or investor, and the price of stocks are going down in the short term, remember that they'll always come back in the long term. That's what history tells us. 10, 15, 20 years, if you're in the right businesses and the right stocks. Here's your chance to add. This is what we tend to do and what I tend to do is you've done the work on these great businesses, and you have the price that you would like to add to, and the market is getting nervous because of something short-term, add to it.
Some of the best, not that I'm giving advice of course, but I'm just thinking in the past, with Apple, which is clearly the most valuable stock out there, I can think back 3, 4, 5, 6 years. It seems like every year, if you go back in history on Apple, there will be a story that they're not going to produce as many iPhones as people thought, and then the stock will go down. Things like that. That's just in the past. That's always been a good example of being able to add to a great business because of a short-term emotional dislocation. Probably, most important, be very mindful of periods of euphoria because those you will know.
We just went through one, Mark, frankly, with some of these, let's call them the COVID stocks, like as an example, Peloton. You'll remember, with Peloton as an example, COVID hits. The idea is that no one will ever go to a gym, and everyone is going to ride a bike in their office. That stock was driven to massive highs in the state of euphoria, as were others that got caught up in the lockdown type stocks, where everyone is going to stay home. Guess what? They came right back down to earth. Be very, very careful when you see things like that.
Don't get involved in them at the high part of euphoria. Of course, remember what we said about the despondency, just be on the lookout for that. Again, look at the headlines, what people are saying. When people are getting really despondent about something, generally, that means that a lot of the sellers have already sold, and that may be a really good opportunity. Don't get caught up in that, and, of course, don't interrupt the compounding by selling into that. Those are some of the things that I think about.
Mark Brisley: The subject of advice, versus do-it-yourself, is a big one these days. I think when we think of advice, or seeking out the services of an advisor, we think about getting educated, well-rounded advice about portfolios, but there's also a benefit there to also having someone act as that coach and providing that guidance around the emotional side. Right?
Jason Gibbs: T100%. If you think about all of the professions out there, whether it's lawyers, whether it's doctors, whether it's therapists, they know how to do things and how not to do things. That's why we go to them. It's similar, Mark, to me. I always think of getting on an airplane. I'm a terrible flyer, and I know it makes no sense to be nervous, but when that turbulence hits, no matter what, I'm like, "Oh, here we go." The hands get a little sweaty, and I'm like, "Okay, now I can't concentrate on this book." What happens? The pilot gets on, and in a very calm voice says, "Look, I've seen this before.
It's no problem. Just choppy air. Just relax, and we'll be on our way." They don't get on, and say, "Okay, this is not good. This turbulence, I've never seen before." It's always something they've seen before, and they know there's, any flight, you're going to have a little short-term turbulence, but you're always going to land, of course. That's what I think about investing. You start out with the basics, the savings, starting early, the compounding. You're in the air, do not expect it to ever be a smooth ride. They never are, over the long-term.
There will be some turbulence. Some flights, more turbulence than others, but you're going to land. You're going to land and you have someone at the cockpit that understands how to land. That's always the way I think about it.
Mark Brisley: Jason, you've quoted a lot of Munger and Buffett reading that you've done. I know you're a voracious reader. What else are you suggesting to our listeners, in terms of books or podcasts, they might be listening to, that touch on some of the things you've discussed with us today?
Jason Gibbs: TWith books, there's a few that I'll list here. The first is Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel. There's a lot of investment books written every year. To be honest, many of them are average to below average, they tell you what you already know. This is one of the best I've read in a long, long time. This is actually one of the best investment writers out there. Morgan Housel, Psychology of Money, he gets into many of the things that we've talked about today. He certainly goes into greater depth. He does it in a way that anyone can understand.
Really, he makes it very simple. He was actually speaking at a podcast, very good podcast that he was on with Tim Ferriss, who's one of the best for my money podcasters out there. They did a really good podcast recently. Another great book someone had mentioned to me is The Science of Storytelling by Will Storr. This book is, I found it fascinating. He gets into the idea that-- Well, it's not an idea. We know it. That, as humans, we're kind of fiction writers in our brain, which is odd to say, but it's kind of true. We just sit there, stand there, and we make things up.
That's how we've gotten along. We have these narratives that are in our brain, and it gets to our ego, and what we see outside, what we think people are thinking about us, which is often not true. It's all on the science of storytelling. It's a fascinating one in terms of how narratives can lead you astray, and how you sometimes are making things up in your head that rarely are true. It gets down to, we often worry, that we're always worried about things, and the vast majority of the time, those things don't come true. Richer, Wiser, Happier by William Green is one of the best investment books I've read in a long time, together with Psychology of Money.
This is a relatively new book. This author, William Green, has spent a great amount of his career interviewing some of the best investors of all time, who we all know. Whether it was Munger, whether it was Sir John Templeton, and others, who I hadn't even heard of, to be honest with you. He takes it very deep in terms of what it's like to manage money, and have a portfolio, and have your savings invested over the long term, and how sometimes you do have to go through some rough patches, and how some of these investors dealt with that.
That's a great book, and a couple of other classics, Markets, Mobs, and Mayhem by Robert Menschel, if I'm getting that last name correct. As the title suggests, you can guess what that's about. All the history of the emotions of the market and how that came to be in certain episodes in history, and a really short book by John Kenneth Galbraith, A Short History of Financial Euphoria. That's a good one as well. Mark, you remember, we used to go to Omaha. Remember those meetings where we would go to the Berkshire meetings with Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger?
Mark Brisley: Phenomenal. Yes, sure.
Jason Gibbs: Wasn't that great?
Mark Brisley: Amazing.
Jason Gibbs: They're still going on, which is fantastic. One thing that I would recommend for those who are interested, I just did this again in November and December of last year, read all of the Berkshire Hathaway letters that Warren Buffett has written in the past. You have to want to do that. It could take a while, but I found it very interesting. This goes back to the '70s, the '80s, the '90s, '2000s, of course, and up to the present. This is probably the greatest investor of all time, who we're still lucky enough to be able to listen to and see and talk about seeing it at all.
Read his letters, and as well, no, wonderful investment writer. He puts investing in markets and just being a human, in very, very personal terms, and such humble terms. That can help you because you'll learn about inflation periods, you'll learn about what happens during wars in the markets. You'll learn about Buffett. Talk about going through pain. I remember in the late '90s when it was all about technology, stocks, and Berkshire did not own them. I'll never forget. The headlines were, "This poor Warren Buffett, isn't this a shame?
He's totally missed the boat. Oh well, that career is over. We'll see him later." You see how that turned out. You can read his thoughts during that period. Then his partner, Charlie Munger, one of the speeches that's often quoted, and this is not something you want to read if you're going to be distracted, you might have to read it a few times, but this is a good one, The Psychology of Human Misjudgment. One of the areas where he's had a fascination is how we can do things that make no sense as humans, and how that leads to mistakes in investing.
That's a good one. Then finally, Mark, one of the greatest investors in Canada, Bruce Flatt, the CEO of Brookfield Asset Management, read his letter. He'll write a short letter every quarter, and then of course, in his annual reports. He'll give you a really good idea of what's going on in the world, and how he looks at businesses and valuing them. How to not interrupt the compounding of great businesses. Some of those things, I keep going back to them to this day. There's no shame in reading a book 5 times, 10 times if it's a great book, just keep rereading it. You'll find things that you may have missed the first time.
Mark Brisley: For what it's worth, with my kids, early university and high school age, I had them both read The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel. For parents, that are looking for a great read for young adults, it's fantastic. Jason, we've unpacked a lot here, and it's such an important subject beyond the technical aspects of investing. As we've channeled some classic rock, I was thinking of a great song by Elvis Presley, which was, I Forgot to Remember to Forget.
I think when we were talking about advice, that sums up why we all believe you, and I, in particular, that the best thing someone can start with when it comes to their financial affairs is work with an advisor, a qualified professional. Keep them on track, and help them remember, and think about what's important when it comes to finances. I want to thank you for your time and your insights today. We look forward to having you back on the same subject soon.
Jason Gibbs: TThanks so much, Mark. This has been a great conversation. Thank you so much.
Mark Brisley: Thank you to all of our listeners, as well. This has been another edition of On the Money. We look forward to talking with you soon. You've been listening to another edition of On the Money with Dynamic Funds. For more information on Dynamic and our complete fund lineup, contact your financial advisor, or visit our website at dynamic.ca.
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